New elements in HTML 5

News Type: Event — Seeded on Wed Aug 8, 2007 10:48 AM EDT

Article Source: ibm.com

technology, internet, apple, opera, html, web-standards, mozilla-foundation

Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) 5 introduces new elements to HTML for the first time since the last millennium. New structural elements include aside, figure, and section. New inline elements include time, meter, and progress. New embedding elements include video and audio. New interactive elements include details, datagrid, and command.

Three major browser vendors—Apple, Opera, and the Mozilla Foundation—came together as the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group (WhatWG) to develop an updated and upgraded version of classic HTML. More recently, the W3C took note of these developments and started its own next-generation HTML effort with many of the same members. Eventually, the two efforts will likely be merged. Although many details remain to be argued over, the outlines of the next version of HTML are becoming clear.

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6.3

5.3

{"commentId":931421,"authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

Matt Schwartz

Finally some progress. Although I don't think this brings us a huge step closer to much better web applications. Mozilla was far ahead of the game when they came up with XUL.

{"commentId":931421,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

2 votes

#1 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 10:50 AM EDT

{"commentId":931473,"authorDomain":"charlienews"}

Cha.rlie

Microsoft will still find a way to monkey with it, I bet. They'll put some kind of "Premium Content Rights Management" on the last 50 characters of text in a div or something.

{"commentId":931473,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"charlienews"}

4 votes

#2 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 11:05 AM EDT

{"commentId":931532,"authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

Matt Schwartz

They're usual tactic is to not exactly conform to the standard, but close enough where developers will make little tweaks so their stuff works with Microsoft software. Although with IE market share lower I'm not sure how well that would work these days.

{"commentId":931532,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

2 votes

#2.1 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 11:18 AM EDT

{"commentId":931721,"authorDomain":"agio"}

agio

HTML 5? I thought W3C was discontinuing HTML in favor of XHTML.

{"commentId":931721,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"agio"}

2 votes

#3 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 12:17 PM EDT

{"commentId":931871,"authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

Matt Schwartz

It seems the WhatWG group made enough noise and got enough attention that the W3C decided to not ignore it any longer. At least that's my interpretation.

{"commentId":931871,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

2 votes

#3.1 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 1:00 PM EDT

{"commentId":932098,"authorDomain":"agio"}

agio

Think I'll stick with XHTML, after all I already bought the books and everything. Plus it's nice to be able to validate web pages with XML Spy.

{"commentId":932098,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"agio"}

2 votes

#3.2 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:06 PM EDT

{"commentId":932747,"authorDomain":"baxter"}

Tim Baxter

Already wobbly from an unwillingness or inabilty to meet real-world needs of real-world developers, xhtml fell over and rotted under the weight of its own bulk. It was, however pushed by certain browser vendor that still hasn't properly supported it.

I'm looking forward to html 5. Looks like there's a lot of things in there that solve a lot of real problems. If nothing else, validation will be a big plus.

{"commentId":932747,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"baxter"}

4 votes

#3.3 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:27 PM EDT

{"commentId":934565,"authorDomain":"ern"}

Ern

HTML5 is still compatible with XHTML. More info at the W3C.

{"commentId":934565,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"ern"}

#3.4 - Thu Aug 9, 2007 12:41 PM EDT

{"commentId":934574,"authorDomain":"nathanherald"}

nathanherald

The HTML5 spec also specs out XHTML5, but it must be served as xml. So you can still use XHTML is you want, but it will probably be read as tag soup as it is today (unless IE decided XML is a good thing).

{"commentId":934574,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"nathanherald"}

#3.5 - Thu Aug 9, 2007 12:43 PM EDT

{"commentId":932083,"authorDomain":"kylen"}

KyleN

Not sold yet on the idea of HTML 5, it's main purpose is to make it easier for non-programmers to write websites?

I've always found the idea of content and structure being separate a useful thing, this would reverse that effort and restructure content. It's certainly not perfect today but it's much closer than this appears.

{"commentId":932083,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"kylen"}

1 vote

#4 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:00 PM EDT

{"commentId":932137,"authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

Matt Schwartz

I'm waiting to pass judgment until I see how it's implemented in each browser. We may end up with some really great new features or a complete mess.

{"commentId":932137,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

1 vote

#4.1 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:17 PM EDT

{"commentId":932202,"authorDomain":"damiankd"}

DamianKD

For example,you might attach background music to a Web page like this

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

I'm all for the proposed semantic changes in HTML5. Most folks who write semantic code already do something like this (with a class or an id), and this just shortens it.

I do agree with you, Kyle, about keeping structure and presentation separately. I hope they deprecate crud like hspace & vspace, cellspacing, cellpadding, etc. as all of that can be handled by margin, padding, and more in CSS.

Overall, though, it does look pretty exciting.

{"commentId":932202,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"damiankd"}

3 votes

#4.2 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:38 PM EDT

{"commentId":932226,"authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

Matt Schwartz

Damian, you bring up a good point. I'd like to see deprecated features removed and no longer supported. If a document claims to be HTML5 it shouldn't have any deprecated attributes like align. If the document is defined as HTML4 or below then of course it could still have those features.

{"commentId":932226,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

1 vote

#4.3 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:46 PM EDT

{"commentId":932758,"authorDomain":"baxter"}

Tim Baxter

Kyle, it's not so much aimed at making things easier as it's attempting to address some long overdue issues. The HTML5 folks wouldn't suggest anything less than separation of content and presentation.

But serving up xhtml as html is a joke. Many people (myself included) do it, but that doesnt' make it any less of a joke.

They felt xhtml wasn't going to be properly supported anytime in the near future, xhtml 2.0 (and 1.1) are going nowhere, and moving forward with html would be more effective. At this point, I agree.

{"commentId":932758,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"baxter"}

4 votes

#4.4 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:31 PM EDT

{"commentId":934595,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}

Josh of Arc

For example,you might attach background music to a Web page like this

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Oh, c'mon. It'll be retro like the late 90s. We can embed MIDI tracks of The Chicken Polka.

{"commentId":934595,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}

1 vote

#4.5 - Thu Aug 9, 2007 12:48 PM EDT

{"commentId":934632,"authorDomain":"damiankd"}

DamianKD

I prefer the Hamster Dance.

"dee de dee dee dee...."

{"commentId":934632,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"damiankd"}

1 vote

#4.6 - Thu Aug 9, 2007 12:58 PM EDT

{"commentId":932422,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}

Josh of Arc

Actually, looking at the W3C's New Elements in HTML 5, it's pretty damn exciting. It looks like a lot of what currently requires javascript or php can be done strictly with HTML (e.g., check out someof the new attributes for the input element's type attribute).

And the semantic tags being added are going to make my life easier—hell, the dialog one alone is worth it. And they're finally deprecating u.

Kewl...

{"commentId":932422,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}

5 votes

#5 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 3:55 PM EDT

{"commentId":932595,"authorDomain":"spudsstuff"}

Spuds Stuff

Not before time to. I'm sure there will be a problem though with some browsers. I bet my much loved Firefox won't have any issues though.

{"commentId":932595,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"spudsstuff"}

1 vote

#6 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:44 PM EDT

{"commentId":932719,"authorDomain":"damiankd"}

DamianKD

Spuds, what browsers are you referring to? With the exception of some hackery here and there, browsers as far back as IE5 work well with HTML & CSS. I typically only try to go back as far as 5.5, though. I'm not supporting something older than 7 years.

{"commentId":932719,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"damiankd"}

2 votes

#6.1 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:18 PM EDT

{"commentId":932865,"authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

Matt Schwartz

I think he's referring to Firefox and Safari often conforming to the latest standards first while IE usually lags behind. Until Firefox gained a lot of popularity Microsoft didn't bother putting out significantly newer versions of IE for years.

{"commentId":932865,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"mattschwartz"}

4 votes

#6.2 - Wed Aug 8, 2007 6:16 PM EDT

{"commentId":935381,"authorDomain":"spudsstuff"}

Spuds Stuff

I love speculation as to just what I am talking about. Matt you are exactly right.

{"commentId":935381,"threadId":"135304","contentId":"885000","authorDomain":"spudsstuff"}

2 votes

#6.3 - Thu Aug 9, 2007 4:26 PM EDT

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